On the flip side, there are some aspects of society that people disagree on. For example, some people believe that a strict egalitarian society would be the ideal society, while others would argue that elitism is ideal. Some people believe that communism is the best governmental structure, while others strive for a more capitalistic society. The point is, everyone has different ideas on what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. Since the concepts of what’s 'right' and what’s 'wrong' are not concretely defined, any system that is put in place will have people advocating for it or against it.
Let's say that you could somehow manufacture a homogeneous population of humans that share the same subjective ideas of morality. Much like in the book Brave New World, each person would have a purpose and they'd believe that the current society is flawless. Are these people even human at that point? How can you be human without any diversity or individualism. In my opinion, the people in Brave New World are not even human, they are just mindless drones fulfilling the tasks they're assigned to.
The reason why a real utopia will never exist is because perfection is just a concept. Everything in the world has imperfections. We may strive for perfection, but there is never an end; you can always do better in some regard. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone else and that's just part of being human. Having a diverse world of ideas is the only way innovation can exist. Having innovation creates new ideas that could potentially bring us closer that that 'perfect' society. That's precisely why the United States has been so successful. By allowing people of all races and cultures into our country, we also allow their ideas, beliefs, and perspectives in. If we want to come closer to that ideal society, we should be letting more people into our country for varying countries, not restricting immigration.
- Arjun T
Wow, Arjun! You make many good points--so many that I'd almost call this blog perfect! I'd say, though that people who agree about what makes a society good don't necessarily have to be as mindless as BNW characters are. For sure though, if utopias are defined to be absolutely perfect, then you're probably right that any utopian society wouldn't have true "humans," which is sort of a contradiction.
ReplyDeleteInteresting post. Here's a concept: If somebody were to take an imperfect society as being ideal, or a society with many different values and opinions, then would they technically be living in a Utopia?
ReplyDeleteThis is a really interesting idea to think about. In my survey a while back, I got all kinds of answers about what a utopia should be, mostly around the idea that "everyone should be happy." If everyone's idea of utopia is different, how can we improve in a uniform way that everyone agrees with? Obviously this is easier (and more plausible) with small groups of people, and an attempt at a large-scale "utopian" society would not work as planned.
ReplyDeletei had this idea of a utopia wherein everybody is plugged into the Matrix, sort of, and each person gets their own dream world that works exactly the way they want it to. It would serve basically no purpose, but after humans figure out everything else and/or the rate of new discovery starts to level off, why not just give people an easy, low-risk way to be happy?
Deletethe question is basically, what's the objective of humanity? if we made a utopia where everybody was happy, what would we do with it? advance learning? work at maintaining what we have? make a BETTER UTOPIA? to be human is to work to do, be, or create something better and I think the biggest problem with utopias is that they leave no room to improve.
DeleteThis is very interesting to consider. I definitely agree that there is no way to have a utopia where every person is happy. Everybody has a different idea on what is “perfect” for them. But, in Brave New world, even though everyone may seem happy, they aren’t choosing to be happy, as they’ve been conditioned this way.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like a true Utopia is more of a state of mind than it is a society. I'm sure some people in the society do see Brave New World as a utopia and maybe even some people in our world see it as a Utopia too. I think you're right and a Utopia is in the eye of the beholder and that means no one will really be able to agree on everything
ReplyDeleteI’ve been thinking about this a lot too. We’d definitely have to lose our humanity to be in a seemingly perfect world where everyone is satisfied and agreeable. The differences in people allow us to collaborate on fantastic things and come up with new ideas that, like you said, may have utopian aspects (eradicating disease, clean water, etc.). In fairness, people also “collaborate” on terrible things, so the good comes with the bad for sure. I think people are naturally inclined to want to have problems to solve and things to fix, on whatever scale, so if we somehow achieved a BNW-like state, we’d probably be super bored and dissatisfied if we weren’t totally brainwashed. But, yeah, I’m not sure that level of so-called perfection is even possible, especially in a world where we retain our individuality.
ReplyDelete"We can say that there are some objectively 'good' traits of society that everyone can agree on, such as eradicating health problems, providing clean running water to everyone, etc."
ReplyDeleteI don't think even that is true. (7th hour journalism will get what I mean.) At least, people may support certain principles, but the actual "doing" part won't get unanimous agreement. I think that's another reason utopias aren't possible. People can't agree on the execution, which leads to one group forcefully taking the reigns and making the decision.
**REINS
DeleteThis is what I've been thinking about. How would a Utopian exist if it's definition is something about a perfect world. Everyone has their own image about perfection and it differs from others. About the whole human thing, I believe that they would be human, except more of a zombie human. One that doesn't know what it's like to have free will which is something that differentiates us to other animals or past humans. So, in a way it would be de-evolution rather then a step forward.
ReplyDeleteI agree that utopia cannot exist; at least in the fairy tale, perfect society sense of utopia. I think there are a lot of reasons for that, but the fact that there will always be disagreement and conflict from how people see the world differently is one of them. Utopia, then, seems not a state in which everyone exists in placid harmony, but a process moving towards a vision that can uphold basic values of what we may agree means to be human. Maybe that vision cannot be achieved or ideally executed, but imperfection and the desire for progress seems a fundamental human trait.
ReplyDeleteThis is a really interesting idea to think about. Essentially, individuality prevents everyone from a Utopian society from existing. Maybe that explains why the World State sought to remove individuality when it tried to create a utopia in BNW. By making everyone think the same way, they tried to eradicate that issue and create a utopia that kept everyone happy. As we saw, that also failed, because they failed to get rid of individuality entirely. There were also a lot of other reasons that that society wasn't utopian, but individuality also limited the people of The World State's ability to be happy (like Bernard).
ReplyDelete**prevents a utopian society from existing.
DeleteYou are right. A utopia can not exist. In your last paragraph, you discuss how America is so great because of persistent, gradual improvement. This is consistent with the notion of a protopia - a society in which constant improvement is emphasized with the recognition that things can always be better.
ReplyDeleteI agree that a true Utopia can never exist, where every single person is happy with how society is going and has all their needs met, however I do think that relative Utopias might exist. Like you said, people will always have different opinions on what is considered right and what is considered wrong, however this means that in any society possible, there is probably at least 1 person out there who thinks the world is "Perfect". For example in handmaids tale, there were probably a few commanders who thought of gillead as a utopia.
ReplyDeleteI would challenge this by asking - sure, we would be "mindless drones" as you mentioned, but would we be happier? I guess it's interesting to think of what it would be like if we were all a homogeneous population. Although it might seem dehumanizing and troubling to us, what if those individuals were much happier than we are? I'm not endorsing this position as I do think that the conflicts and complexities of human life is what makes it valuable, but it's an interesting thought.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that because right and wrong are not concretely defined concepts, everyone will have a different perception of what a utopia is and thus a utopia for everyone cannot exist. I think to move forward as a society we should just try to maximize good and minimize bad, while getting as much input on what good and bad are from as many sources as possible. Your thought experiment is definitely interesting, though, and raises interesting questions. What if through some scientific experiment or supernatural phenomenon humans somehow learned the secret to a completely fulfilling existence for everyone, and everyone agreed on it? Would this still be a Brave New World situation?
ReplyDeleteThis blog post is like a utopia because it's basically perfect. I completely agree with your statement that there will always be a better way. Perfection doesn't mean the same thing for everyone, and that makes it so hard to achieve a utopia. I love how you assess the US under utopian standards, and I can't help but agree with your claim. The US wouldn't be so successful if there were unreasonable restrictions in immigration. Amazing blog post man!
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree that a true utopia can't ever exist. I think it's impossible to please everyone, in fact the more decisions a governing body makes, the more it upsets the people of the society. I like how you incorporate a modern day example, such as the United States into your blog post and compare it BNW. Nice Post!
ReplyDeleteYou make a lot of interesting points. The point you made about a homogenous population is fascinating. For example many scandinavian countries have very homogenous people and are very successful democracies. This could be getting close to a utopia but diversity, and the value of disagreement( respectfully) may be left out
ReplyDeleteI agree that a true Utopia cannot exist, because every person has their own idea of perfection. I don't think that people should have to lose their individuality or identity for the sake of having a 'perfect' society...since perfection is a relative concept and cannot be defined objectively anyway. A homogeneous world without diversity of thought is definitely not my Utopia!
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